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Skybait J

Catch 'Em All! Pokemon Thread

Ah, Pokemon. It was the only game I ever wanted when I was young. Gold and Silver actually came to America ON my birthday (same birthday I got my Gameboy Color). That was friggin kickass.

Okay, okay, this is teh Pokemons Thread, because I don't care who you are, EVERYONE plays the "real" Pokemon games when the come out, even those Halo/PC gamers in my class played em. One of em bought a DS JUST to play Diamond! I did kinda the same thing, now that I think of it....Why do I always get stations when the new Pokemon comes out? o.O Oh yeah, the awesomeness.

I'm starting to like the spinoffs a lot, though. I mean...I liked Pokemon Snap.... The "real" games are good, but I could give quite a few choices as to how they could totally make it better, like story could be expanded much, much more. Having two rivals is a start, but we need more! Of course anything drastically changed like that would just mean another spin off, but those are FUN, right?!

Wouldn't it be fun to play from a Gym Leader's perspective? Or have a semi-rookie grow up to be a Gym Leader or Breeder instead of just a "Pokemon Master". Or, why do all these guys start with no Pokemon? What if they had a lifetime partner Pokemon you could pick in the intro or something? You could Choose what type of pokemon you wanted to be in Gym Leader too...

....Anyone? Anyone? <.<
8-Bit

*Bursts onto the scene!*

I would have to agree, probably everyone has played the "real," Pokemon games.

Be a gym leader? It seems... Lacking in story. I mean, in Pokemon they jsut stand there wait, gathering dust until a trainer comes, beats them (or loses just to come back later) and gives out a bagde that says they beat you. So if you play as a gym leader I say it wouldn't be more then just standing there, then a battle every once and a while.

Choosing a Pokemon in the intro, which i think you mean pick the lowest form a type of Pokemon, kinda like the starter 3 in every game, except out of the entire roster of Pokemon, would be fun. I remeber linking up games and trading from our Blue and Red copies of the game so I could start with a different Pokemon, except the fatal flaw for my tactics was that the Pokemon were jerks and wouldn't listen to me so they got destroyed by Brock and other trainers.

Though choosing any Pokemon that would actually listen to you would be fun.

Random note- I've been needing a good game to play for car trips and since Pokemon has been the main source of my entertainment of those for some years, though lesser now. Would anyone who has played or owns Pokemon mystery dungeon for the GBA recommend it?
Skybait J

There's more to a Gym Leader's life than just stading around waiting for trainers. Think of the TV show and comics, they go around doing all kinds of things. Erica had a perfume shop, Koga was the evil sub-leader of Team Rocket (seriously), and Brock lived the life of a wanderer and only opened his gym once in a while.

What I was thinking of was that you were a low-level gym leader, and you had to proove yourself or simply make your gym worth its badge. Make your gym big, hire/earn disciple. Do your day to day thing around town or take a trip to catch more pokemon or see the world. Theres a possibility of a storyline where you have to beat various villains, and of course, beat the trainers that come in. Throw in full custimization abilities and you got yourself one hell of a great game.

I know I think it'd be an awesome idea....

I heard Mystery Dungeon was supposed to be pretty good from a couple people, but I don't know how old they were aqnd I havn't tried the game myself. In that same train of thought, how good was Pokemon Ranger? That's something I've wanted to try for a while.
Onasaki

Mystery dungeon is pretty chilidish. And it gets boring pretty fast. The claim there's suposed to be some sort of tactical advantage in the battles. But it's nothing but a Final Fantasy Adventure-esque battle. Using items is so damn annoying you'd be dead before you could finish up the battle. Now if they had made it for a better console rather then DS then It'd probably be a damn cool game. But that's my opinion. I've never played Pokemon ranger meself, I've seen stuff in magazines about it. It looks pretty boring, but eh. The newer pokemon, Pearl and Diamond are basicly derrived from the originals. Big evil team plotting to tkae over the world. Gotta stop them and while your at it kill a few gym leaders. And The one dude is right, being a gym leader would be rather boring. the never do anything, just stand there. "I am the water gym leader! All my pokemon are water type! You know their type, meaning you know their weakness. Kill me and end my sad sad thing I call a life!"

Etc etc. I wish they would make a cooler version of the originals for larger consoles where the travel isn't map-based.

Sure, The gamecube versions of the pokemon games were pretty neat But the game was based around some sort of arena or the travel was map-based. Where you select a friggin destination from some menu, which has always annoyed the hell out of me. I feel so confined around a map based system. I want to be able to wander around like Ash fighting random people catching pokemon and having delusions of being a pokemon master with a voice that could open a can.

Seriously, when are they going to make a damn game that's based off the shows. Rather then following the SAME DAMN storyline over and over and over? Go from town to town fighting gym leaders while by some strange twist save the world as well?

And the fact that you can't join the evil side. WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THAT?!?!?!!?!!? I WANT TO BE IN TEAM ROCKET AND RULE THE WORLD! Not be some pansy-assed goody goody little brat who thinks he's somthing special. What about feeding pokemon actual FOOD? Pokeblocks? Poffins? Even if it says the pokemon have personality. Like Naive or Bashful. They don't. Their just weapons in your pointless quest to become champion of the pokemon league. Woopdy friggin doo. Sure I beat it, yeah, Then what? Hmm?

I liked gold and silver version. At least there, it was somewhat of a challenge and there was somthing after the League. Getting to go back to Kanto. And being able to go back and forth. What happened to that? Hmm? That was like THE best pokemon game EVER. Sure there was the cloning glitch. But that's not the point. The point is, Why continue going along the same storyline? Why not give us a world to explore, rather then a cliched storyline that always ends the same way. Becomming champion of the Pokemon League.

This is my rant. Thank you. Razz
Skybait J

You can't become evil and rule the world because the game is aimed at children! Do you want little kids trying to be evil and rule the world, hm? Razz

The other problem with Gold and Silver was an internal battery failure that ran the clock after seven or eight years. You were stuck on one time of day if you were lucky. If you were unlucky your game DIED!!!
8-Bit

Wasn't the show based off the game? Because the show followed the game, except it had a whole bunch of crap thrown in between each town, like the game.

If thats not what you mean then what do you mean?
Konoko

8-Bit wrote:
Wasn't the show based off the game? Because the show followed the game, except it had a whole bunch of crap thrown in between each town, like the game.

If thats not what you mean then what do you mean?


I think he means in the way that the show gave them personalities and such and there were more pokemon just around the world doing things, not always random encounters.
I suppose to extend the game to a more realistic, complete and open world, perhaps going beyond just taking turns using attacks in combat, perhaps jobs and such, or being able to get items in ways other than shops/item balls lying around. Like, say, training up a dugtrio and setting it to mine some cave for evolution stones?

Although, there is one other thing I can't help but pick at.
Quote:
if they had made it for a better console rather then DS then It'd probably be a damn cool game

I'm pretty sure if a game is bad, its bad, and changing what its being played on wouldn't really make it that much better...o.O
Onasaki

The game was based off the show. The show aired in japan before the game was created. It was also a manga before it was a show, anyway.

The manga is much better then the Anime, but then arn't all Manga better then the anime?

Anyway going off topic with that.

Quote:
You can't become evil and rule the world because the game is aimed at children! Do you want little kids trying to be evil and rule the world, hm?


Really, your joking right? Lookit all the games there are now. All the violance. All the killing random things. Think about it. There's probably 1 or 2 8 year olds that play friggin Dead Rising, or Oblivion. Or Resident Evil for that matter. Hell, I knew a FIVE year old who played Resident evil. And knew what he was doing!

Come on! Alot of little kids play evil-related games. Trust me.
Skybait J

Game DEFINITLY came first. Show and manga were based off of it. I mean, it went game-manga-show-other manga-toys-spin off shows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokemon

Quote:
Pokémon (ポケモン, Pokemon?, IPA: [ˈpoʊ.ke.mɑn]) is a media franchise owned by video game giant Nintendo and created by Satoshi Tajiri around 1995. Originally released as a pair of interlinkable Game Boy role-playing video games, Pokémon has since become the second most successful and lucrative video game-based media franchise in the world, falling only behind Nintendo's Mario series.
Captain Gamer

*cracks knuckles*

... Ow.

First off, I agree that beneath the commercialism, cartoonizing, (is that even a word?) IVs, EVs, hacking, and non-stellar plots, the Pokemon games are indeed full of depth and serious business. The main games are losing momentum a little bit, but I overall enjoyed the newest installment, Diamond and Pearl, since I didn't play it with intention of lampooning every aspect of it.

I also think that there is a lot that can be done with spinoff games such as Ranger, Snap (brilliant, brilliant game), and Mystery Dungeon. There is so much to do with the world of Pokemon despite catching them all, and each offers a unique experience... it's just a shame that people don't get that and just go for the titles that make them Pokemon trainers. Each to their own, and I personally say that spinoff games are very welcome. CONCEPT is hardly ever the problem in video games, it's how the developers follow through that really matters.

That said, I think that a game as a gym leader would require a LOT of work to make feaseable. I'd say something along the lines of spending the first half of the game earning the rank, then the second half uncovering some sort of league conspiracy. Now, gyms always seem to be themed, but remember the coup de gracie of Pokemon, Gold/Silver/Crystal, when Blue became the Viridian gym leader? His team remained balanced as far as types go, which means that it just so happens that gym leaders are themed, but not restricted to it.

It may sound groan-worthy, but 'evil organizations' were cool when they weren't two-dimensional. Team Rocket was awesome to battle against, but the other teams were just 'Evil evil evil wah ha ha oh no the Pokemon is destroying us all what have we done,' and it just KILLS me it came to that. What we need is a new team (or maybe breaking the 'Team' formula) that represents competence on the dark side and not just blind 'evil evil evil.'

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, I am not fully familiar with, but I AM familiar with the 'Roguelike' genre it comes from. I have YET to play a Roguelike that I didn't like. I have played a little bit of Mystery Dungeon, and that combined with what I now about Roguelikes, and I can say that I definitely think it's a worthwhile title and will CERTAINLY make car rides go so much faster.

As for Mr. Onasaki's comment about Pokemon being 'weapons' for league domination, well of course! From puppies to hammers, anything can be means to a goal. How you treat these things is entirely up to who you are. You think you're all that and everything else is a rung in your ladder? Okay! Then your Pokemon are weapons! If you actually take the care to think of your Pokemon as living beings with feelings, okay! Then they are your in-game friends who are with you to the end! It really is a shame that they linked 'nature' to stats, though, since I think the additions of natures really lets the imagination go wild in how you think your Pokemon will act. They really need to work on making Pokemon have individual personalities, and less on how to fill up the game and how to make more money. Make the game more immersive, and the money will come naturally.

(Here's where I stop addressing Onasaki specfically and talk to you all again) If this makes you groan yet again, try suspending disbelief when thinking about Pokemon. If you see the games as commodities to be played, done with, shelved, and moved on to the next, then of course you won't see Pokemon as any more than weapons for your gain! If, however, you see the lush world of Pokemon for what it can be, immersive and full of intrigue, then you may more enjoy the company of your partners, and video games on the whole.

I must agree with Konoko in saying that the platform HARDLY dictates the quality of the game. Sure, there's different ways to play, but 'better' between a DS and a console game is a tough call to make. That aside, I WOULD like to see a main-series Pokemon game for the Wii or the next generation, simply because there is just so much that can go into it, and I would like to explore a map in polygons, not sprites like Onasaki said. It's an indulgence I can't help but to have.

I'm afraid that, despite the whole 'hero' thing, I must also give the debate of an evil-oriented game to Onasaki as well. As I said before, a concept concieved in competence is not automatically doomed. We'd just need the game done in a way that can adequately portray an evil organization outsidet the common bounds of black-and-white, perhaps have the protagonist be the same level-headed moral person we always are, yet he decided to join the dark side anyway. Better yet, rather than release two versions of a game where the only difference is which Pokemon and where, release two versions that have the same world, but different stories, one as a humble trainer and one as an organization member! Or going off the Hoenn saga, two different teams that the player could be part of! If we can have a Pokemon game as an evil team member that can portray it as more than evil for the sake of it or greed, I would certainly like to look into it. Gamefreak ought to grab off some of SquareEnix's scenario writers and the dialogue artists of the Paper Mario games and take the world of Pokemon away from the arrogance of the light and explore a more taboo side of a world filled with powerful monsters that are so easily tamed. Hopefully, even the children can learn that being bad is still not cool, but being a complete goody-goody magnetized toward the extremity of justice and the status quo just kills your right to freedom to think.

And that is MY rant. Razz Sans excessive use of jabs and harsh words.
Konoko

Wow, that was some rant.

Based off it, a proposal. I'm not sure if it'll make sense, since I'm sorta thinking it up on the fly after reading some of the things there. Pokemon Light/Dark Shine/Shade or whatever, usual gender choice but generally focused on one person, one that joins a group of trainers opposing the Teams, one that ends up joining the Teams. Could be tricky getting the story just right, but the gist being that both are given reasonable reasons and motivation for thinking that their side is the right choice. Meeting up with the opposing rival now and then as per usual, but then both start to reconsider or find out things, their side getting a bit too extreme, both of them escalating rather too much. Perhaps saying that the enemies use (or potential/imminent use) of such tactics makes it fine for them to use them
too.

As a possibly related though, I remember a friend of mine always complained about when he threw a pokeball at a trainers pokemon, they batted it away. His general comment being, 'Dammit, I want to steal his pokemon. He's only some punk with a bug net, I can take him. I could hit him with my BIKE or something.' Of course, if in a game, after a tough fight, you got into another and they chucked a ball and stole your pokemon, it'd be sheer outrage. So, I guess that sort of thing COULD work as the really bad tactic I vaguely mentioned before. Although, for story purposes, probably best to restrict its use, perhaps saying that only a certain kind of ball can do it, and the player gets their pokemon back after a fight, perhaps against their own pokemon being forced to fight? If the game also managed to get the bonds between pokemon and their trainers up a bit, give them something of a personality, that could really be something.

If there were some generals or leaders on both sides, they could end up taking the place of gym leaders, initially fighting some on the oppositing side, then your side, then the top ones on the opposing, then top ones on yours...Its still fairly simple, but does mix up the formula a bit and could cause there to be a bit more story to the fight, facing off someone who was on your side and previously helped you out and such...

The rival would still end up fighting now and then, for training or for fun after winning. The thought of setting up a gym at the end of a game could be set up as more of a side thing, recruiting/raising up trainers to hang about in your gym while you go do whatever. Perhaps sticking to a general theme of 2 or so types letting you have some extra gimmick or boost to strength, explaining why some might follow that route....if nothing else, it could be a way to get a steady flow of trainer fights, so that after you've beaten EVERYONE, you're not stuck with the same few fights and a bunch of random encounters.

Plus the thought I mentioned before about using the pokemon to help do jobs, or work, earn money, make stuff, explore, dig for items and so forth...
Skybait J

I know I'D play that. Maybe we should infiltrate Nintendo and implant our ideas into the creators' brains.

I think the main reason we've seen nothing amazing happening with Pokemon is because it's a game aimed primarily at little kids. And admit it, it doesn't take too much to impress/entertain them game-wise.
8-Bit

I agree, those ideas all seem pretty good, I'd like to see something like that.

Nintendo I find has some series with the "don't mess with success." style (i.e Pokemon) It has the same basic storyline everytime but always includes new things (not meaning just new Pokemon)

I'd like to see a mix of Pokemon games for Wii. A large 3-D world where you see the Pokemon instead of just random encounters, sending Pokemon out when you want to do things (kinda like the HM's but more options like "collect that item" or "dig") Includes gyms and arena, people walking around for battles (not standing still) that you talk to, maybe a Pokemon Snap style thing for in game contests to win money or items. I'd like to see something like this.

Did I just describe some sort of Pokemon MMORPG!? Now that would be cool.
Captain Gamer

We're not all video game designers (I think), or artists (Not ME, at least), but one thing we DO have is the power of the word. If we cannot help the gameplay of a game, we CAN introduce fresh concepts and plotlines with may SPUR companies to get their grooves back. Trying to be an inspiration to game developers to have them step it up for the sake of a fledgling medium is one of the driving forces behind Digital Defender, don't you know.

Oh, and Pokeymanz rule. Leafeon.
Konoko

<.<
>.>
Vulpix. Cool
Koji_Tsunami

I think that if you could steal Pokémon and join an evil team, the best way to do it would be Pokémon Coliseum Style, and while I didn't like that game in general, the whole "Snag Machine" thing was cool. And by the way, I think that the team with the most blind "evil evil evil" was team aqua.

Teddiursa
8-Bit

Captain Gamer wrote:
We're not all video game designers (I think), or artists (Not ME, at least), but one thing we DO have is the power of the word. If we cannot help the gameplay of a game, we CAN introduce fresh concepts and plotlines with may SPUR companies to get their grooves back.


Oh kinda like how Nintendo did that with this?

(Made by me)Check it

Looks like we're building alot of solid ideas, or slightly solid. Mushy perhaps.

I'd still like to see a Pokemon MMORPG that you can play online with people for Wii, that is of course you don't have to pat every month for it! I'm looking at you WoW!

Voltorb!... What?!
Koji_Tsunami

A Wii MMORPG is an interesting idea, and if Nintendo makes it so, Pokémon will be (in my opinion) one of the best games to do it.

And there's nothing wrong with Voltorb.
Skybait J

MMORPG's are getting pretty big, but will Nintendo jump on the bandwagon as most other companies have? Nintendo's always kinda just done thier own thing <.<

Eevee! ^o^
Konoko

Skybait J wrote:
Eevee! ^o^

Too adorable to beat.

Skybait J wrote:
MMORPG's are getting pretty big, but will Nintendo jump on the bandwagon as most other companies have? Nintendo's always kinda just done thier own thing <.<

Very true.
Though...I think that we shouldn't be saying MMORPG, but just MMO. Multiplayer is definately always a big and popular thing after all, the whole link thing has been around for pokemon all the time, so putting then online, for everyone, and maybe merging all the players worlds together...theres a lot of massively multiplayer online games that arn't RPGs after all.
MMORPGs all start to feel the same after a while. It wouldn't take much tweaking of the formula for this to be nicely different. =3
8-Bit

I agree that there are various MMO that arn't RPG's, I agree that most MMORPGs feel the same after a while (I'm playing FlyFF because it's free! and it feels like WoW)

Now the reason I said MMORPG (mainly due to the fact I call most things that or online) is that Pokemon technically is an RPG. To quote myself from the last page(though overshadowed by CG's 1 minute later post)

8-Bit wrote:
I'd like to see a mix of Pokemon games for Wii. A large 3-D world where you see the Pokemon instead of just random encounters, sending Pokemon out when you want to do things (kinda like the HM's but more options like "collect that item" or "dig") Includes gyms and arena, people walking around for battles (not standing still) that you talk to, maybe a Pokemon Snap style thing for in game contests to win money or items. I'd like to see something like this.

Did I just describe some sort of Pokemon MMORPG!? Now that would be cool.


The only thing I forgot to say is battle other people with your Pokemon, though that can easily replace the random people walking around.
Captain Gamer

If Nintendo were to make a Pokemon MMO game, there would have to be some STRICT guidelines to make it fair.

1) Make battles a bit more interactive, such as placing matters, dodging manually is possible, etc.

2) Give Pokemon ACTUAL mannerisms, and not just a variable which is linked to stats... which I think was a bad idea, linking abstract things like personality to the concrete like stats... giving the impression that a certain Pokemon is best off acting a certain way... Ick.

3) Catching Pokemon must be more difficult, or at least requiring more effort, to emphasize what a big deal it is to manage to catch a Pokemon.

4) Penalize misuse or taking Pokemon for granted. I don't know how, just make it so peoeple aren't so nonchalant about their Pokemon.

5) Overall, just make individual Pokemon a LOT less interchangeable and dispensible. It would make Satoshi Tajiri proud.

6) Legendary Pokemon are either uncatchable (EG Only boss battles) or cannot be used in normal battles.

7) Fix the GTS, already. Have somebody monitor the trades, etc.

Other than that, I think a MMO Pokemon game is completely feasible. Start, go out, go to gyms and contests, do crazy little sidequests along the way, and actually hold a regularly scheduled Pokemon League or Grand Festival of sorts!
8-Bit

I like those ideas you have there CG I just don't understand 2 and 5.

For the idea of penilizing or mistreating Pokemon, why not have it affect the Pokemons attitude? Being mistreated or being taken for granted could affect its attitude. Sorta like this...

Happy Pokemon- have better chances for critical hits.

Normal Pokemon- Neutral, everythings good.

Unhappy Pokemon- Doesn't follow orders as often, like how in Pokemon when you don't have the right badge to control their level, then they basically ignore you.
Skybait J

I think the biggest thing wrong with the Pokemon games is that it's VERY easy to get nonchalant with your pokemon. If a pokemon faints, you groan about strategy and leveling up and that sort of thing. And if you catch a better pokemon than what you have, it's easy enough to just stick your party memebers in the box.

I think if you had the ability to release your pokemon at will to be able to do whatever with them...be it just wandering around or playing games or solving puzzles, that would create much more attachment to your pokemon. When that pokemon faints, you'd be like "noooo, don't die on me! I love you! ;-;"

One thing I think would really stop a full PokeMMO is that Pokemon is still a kids game, and most kids games don't have full internet playability. Most parents don't like little kids messing about on the internet talking to people they don't know. Hell, I'm seventeen, and my mom STILL freaks out when she sees me IM'ing people XD. A much more appealing plan to the parents would be like what Diamond and Pearl have, the basic world to explore, and then the underground tunnel system. I don't WANT to see a PokeMMO like that, but if I ran Nintendo, this would definitly be a concern. Unless we wanted to suddenly have the target audiance be teens. Then we'd have to throw in 64% more BLOOD! Razz

....Not much blood in any Nintendo games, even the teen ones....well, Ocarina of Time...<.<;;;;
8-Bit

Has there actually been any blood what-so-ever in any Pokemon related thing?

I do suppose that would be a problem. You don't wamt some 40 year old weirdo talking with a 8 year old, it would be creepy.
Skybait J

Some of the Pokemon manga has blood.... >.>
Captain Gamer

The original Pokemon Manga (Electric Tales of Pikachu in the states) had one instance of blood, when the protagonist's out-of-control Charizard went nuts, and his opponent, another Charizard, coughed blood... though they only showed the blood on the floor, not the actual coughing it up. And let's not forget the time when Misty changes into a bathing suit and the panels force us to gawk at her!

The Pokemon SPECIAL Manga, that is something else. You have an Arbok cut in two (literally) and a part which scores some awesome points is when Blaine punches Mewtwo. IN THE FACE!

Said by Tajiri himself, the Pokemon Special Manga is how he truly envisioned the world of Pokemon, with its fair share of irreparable deception, social disparity, con artists, and shades of grey to every conflict. THIS means that the first manga, the anime, and even the games are all second-rung to this more updated tome.
Skybait J

Electric tale of Pikachu has blood in the very first issue, when Ash gets attacked by that Fearow.

I think there might be a few more minor instances, but no severe fantasy blood loss where you slice someone and blood sprays everywhere <.<
8-Bit

Wait a second... I have 4 of those comics...


*Rumages through small pile*

Here we go... Yes theres blood. How long was this series of comics anyway, because in 1 comic he earned 2 badges so I guess it wasn't that long a series.
Konoko

<.< Currently relevant to this thread.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic

Now thats what I'm talking about.... Rolling Eyes
Captain Gamer

Ahh, yes. I saw that.

You must read Gabe's accompanying newsreel, though. That right there is what gaming is all about, and at it's best!
Konoko

Smile Yeah, I always read the news on PA, since it often has good stuff. Good guys, they are. Displayed another time there, since that guy needed that.
And that 12 year old evee trainer is so damn adorable.

*thinks back fondly to the various incarnations of a bulbasaur named 'jim'. With giga drain/leech seed/sword dance/double edge. And Leftovers, later on. x3*
Koji_Tsunami

I used to have a Teddiursa named "Joey" in Pokemon Gold. I want one again, but of course I can't get out of the Kanto League in Fire Red. (sighs) I probably won't be able to catch one anyway...

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