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First Political Discussion Thread: Iraq War
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Should America pull out of Iraq?
Yes, immediately!
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
Yes, slowly but surely.
60%
 60%  [ 3 ]
No, they should wait until the fighting stops to keep the peace, then leave.
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
No, they should have permanent occupancy in Iraq to make sure nothing bad happens again.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 5

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Konoko
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

I rather disagree with
Quote:
Britain was the only thing standing between the Axis and victory. They were doomed.
, but I guess thats because despite all general evidence and past affirmations, I'm actually kinda patriotic, since I want to disagree with that, and check up on the facts because of that. Rather than the other way round. So, basically, I'm admitting ahead of time that I may be a little biased, but then thats true of most people. Razz
But regardless...we maintained control over the channel and we ended up winning the air war too, pretty much stopping their invasions plans dead for an indefinate period of time. Cracking Engima was also a pretty good step forward too, so all around, I really wouldn't say we were doomed.

Operation Mincemeat (One of my favourites. Lucky corpse even got opera tickets.) also strongly paved the way for D-day, so I wouldn't say luck and stupidity were the foremost things that helped. Poor communication, perhaps, since they had become so convinced that the false information that had been so painstakingly fed, that they actually disbelieved the reports that were to the contrary for quite some time, letting various places get established before the main enemy armour came along.

Just to argue a small point, so it sounds less like heroic America rushing to save helpless Britain. Rolling Eyes
Equally, I'm not sure if you skipped the bit about the US blockading Japans attempt to unify Asia, and Japan deciding that the US was weak. Not so much a warning blow to keep you away. You guys really did have a rough time getting past them, if only for the sheer patriotism and morale they had going, so the bombs really were a bit of a boon, since otherwise I think it might have gone a lot longer.


As a further sidenote, before I likely stop chiming in, my grandad worked in the fire service (volunteer) during the blitz and my grandma was a nurse. =D
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firemastrr
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I did sound like it was heroic America coming in to save Helpless Britain, and it was nothing like that. Neither could have done it without the other.

Konoko wrote:
Operation Mincemeat (One of my favourites. Lucky corpse even got opera tickets.) also strongly paved the way for D-day, so I wouldn't say luck and stupidity were the foremost things that helped. Poor communication, perhaps, since they had become so convinced that the false information that had been so painstakingly fed, that they actually disbelieved the reports that were to the contrary for quite some time, letting various places get established before the main enemy armour came along.


I didn't mean just for D-Day. All through the war, Allied luck and Axis stupidity helped greatly. I agree that D-Day had a lot more to do with planning and care than luck, and it was executed brilliantly. Other times, earlier in the war, the Axis screwed up big-time, though. Like that story I told you previously.

Konoko wrote:
Equally, I'm not sure if you skipped the bit about the US blockading Japans attempt to unify Asia, and Japan deciding that the US was weak. Not so much a warning blow to keep you away. You guys really did have a rough time getting past them, if only for the sheer patriotism and morale they had going, so the bombs really were a bit of a boon, since otherwise I think it might have gone a lot longer.


I did skip and paraphrase that part a little, and that was in the intrest of time. I didn't want to spend forever talking about WWII. But to complete:

Pre-Pearl Harbor, Japan was running out of resources. They could not expand their glorious empire without more, especially oil. The obvious solution was to invade the Middle East. But, surely, the United States would not stand for it and would enter the war to defend the innocent people of the Middle East (kinda ironic, isn't it?). At that time, a navy was measured by how many battleships it had. Battleships were the queen of the seas. The U.S. had 9 battleships and was building a tenth; Japan had 7. So they decided to launch a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor to hopefully sink enough U.S. battleships and cripple the navy enough to keep the U.S. away. So, after much careful planning, the bombed Pearl Harbor, without formally declaring war. That's breaking the rules (or at least it was then). We entered WWII the next day.

Better?


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